Get the Lead Out ... of our water!

Today's Crbnly Conversations episode, we delve into the Biden administration's bold proposal to replace 9 million lead pipes nationwide within the next decade. Join them as they explore the environmental, community, and health implications of this ambitious plan, navigating the intersection of public policy and sustainable living. #CrbnlyConversations #LeadPipes #SustainableLiving #Crbnly

Useful Resources
Biden Administration to Require Replacing of Lead Pipes Within 10 Years - The New York Times
Cities must replace harmful lead pipes within 10 years under new Biden administration plan
Biden's 10-year lead pipe removal plan to make large impact on Chicago's water system, officials say
EPA rule changes would address lead pipes

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Transcript

Shane (00:02.561)
All right, hola, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Carbony Conversations with Shane and Chad. Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend so far.

Chadwick (00:13.878)
Definitely hope so. It's the weekend.

Shane (00:16.661)
Got another conversation for you. But before we dig into that, just wanna remind everyone that we are a podcast where friends examine the intersection of community, lifestyles and consumption in our lives. We've created this in a hope to share our stories and curiosity to motivate actions to lessen our carbon footprint and use our platform to create a space for everyone out there listening and community members to share their carbon lead journeys as well.

You can follow us on social media, Instagram, X, TikTok, YouTube, you name it, we're there. Like, follow, subscribe. And then, you know, we appreciate all the support on the episodes. So if you're new to this and you want to follow us or make sure that you're staying in tune with all of our episodes and previous episodes, just scroll down to the show notes.

Click on find and join the conversation and that'll give you a link to whichever podcast app you use to listen. That'll give you a link and make it easier for you to tune in. So, we'll get today going. If Chad, if you wanna introduce the topic here.

Chadwick (01:36.562)
I certainly do. So like we tend to do, we scroll through the news, we do a lot of thinking, we're like, oh, this stands out. And I picked this one because it stands out as I think a big important update in quality of life. And also like it's infrastructure, it's large scale, it's federal government level change. So I think we should cover it.

But I think we should also have like a healthy debate about, you know, is this fit into our carbon like conversations and topic either way we're going to cover it. So title of today's conversation is get the lead out dot, dot of our water. So just recently the Biden administration and the EPA has proposed a requirement to replace all of the lead pipes within 10 years.

Shane (02:19.15)
Hehehe

Chadwick (02:32.046)
And this made the rounds, you know, I found it in the New York Times, there's other places reporting on it, especially the local news, because there's a lot of towns across the country that use lead pipes to get their water out and been kind of baked in because they were laid in the ground so long ago. And as we'll find out with a little bit more, there might be more lead pipes or less lead pipes than we actually know, because not everyone, every city has a good track record of how many pipes they have and what they're made of.

Okay, so why this matters and what this actually means. So it's a bold move to remove these lead pipes. So the Biden administration wants to set the toughest rules on lead and drinking water in 30 years, planning to replace around 9 million lead pipes across the nation as a response to the health crisis in Flint, Michigan. We won't double click too far in there, but multiple years back, entire...

in the city of Flint had to drink bottled water because the contamination of lead in their water was so high that it was beyond responsible to let anyone drink it for a bunch of like mistakes and problems and issues that we don't have time to get into. But there's plenty of news coverage out there if you're curious to double click back in.

Shane (03:53.609)
Yep. And like anything, nothing in this world is free. Of course, this plan comes with a big price tag. So the EPA estimates that swapping out the lead pipes nationwide will cost anywhere between 20 to 30 billion over 10 years. And while most of the costs will fall on utilities and consumers, there's 15 billion available from 2021 infrastructure law to help out. So that.

may cut down about half of the cost there.

Chadwick (04:26.506)
Yeah, I mean, it's already money set aside that we said we're gonna spend, hence budgets. So some of the value here, health risks and money saved. So lead is dangerous, especially for kids, which causes lasting harm and has a lot to do with our brains and our ability to process and think when lead gets in the way of doing that. So the EPA predicts annual economic benefits anywhere from 9.8 to 34 billion.

due to fewer health problems underlying the value of the proposal.

Shane (05:02.681)
And one of the hot topics within this topic is the amount of lead. So kind of changing the standard with criticisms. So the Biden administration wants to reduce the allowed amount of lead in drinking water from 15 to 10 parts per billion. We'll let the scientists explain that more, but some health experts aren't satisfied with that number. They're pushing for an even lower standard, emphasizing that.

any level of lead is risky. So.

Chadwick (05:36.226)
Definitely. And this is a big, bold plan, which means it has big benefits and also has big challenges. So this plan tackles lead exposure, especially in communities facing health disparities. Think low income, think black, brown versus white affluent suburbs. Like another way to put it is, if you live in a hundred year old building with hundreds of year old streets versus a new sub development out in the suburbs,

there's a higher probability that you got old pipes and services providing the water, the natural gas, like anything coming in and out of your building. Whereas if you're living in a new homestead that's 50 years old or less, like there's a really good chance that there's hot new safety, like everything that comes with the benefit of building things do. So.

It's not easy, so costs are rising, supply chains are a problem, and as we mentioned earlier, like not every city has complete records. I mean, I used to live in Louisville, some of you guys recall, and while we were there, they were doing a major water pipe overhaul through some major lines. And I remember reading an article one morning that in a junction, they found a wooden pipe that was still being used. That was like a hundred and...

20, 130 years old. I'm sure it was leaking, you know, but it was still like from an original and they had no clue that was down there. They didn't know that was what they were gonna find. They knew they had to replace it. So it's like, just so many things. Anyways, so the EPA wants to utilize this process, replace lead pipes at about a rate of 10% each year over the next decade, but there is a loophole allowing them to skip the cost of replacing lead lines on private property. I.e. it's kind of like.

Shane (07:05.261)
That's crazy.

Shane (07:12.321)
Wow.

Chadwick (07:33.506)
on the property owner. So Shane, like how does this make you feel? Is this even a carbon lead top?

Shane (07:43.193)
I definitely think it's important. And I think with most topics, there's ways to tie it in with being more sustainable, being more carbonly. I guess some things that pop up immediately or you would think that newer pipes are more sustainable because they're gonna last a little bit longer. They're gonna probably, I would think, help prevent leaks and things like that.

So that, you know, reduces the amount of wasted water, reduces the amount of times that the ground has to be dug up and all of the manpower and things that come from that. And then to tie it in with like the Flint, Michigan issue. I mean, it would, I would think cut down on people would feel safer for drinking tap water, which may

in turn cut down on the amount of bottled water that they're purchasing.

Chadwick (08:50.194)
I'm with you on those things like especially to in the carbon layer of like the sense of if we can all trust our water source and especially in a Less developed or ignored neighborhood So yeah, like what how many plastic water bottles are gonna not be needed or demanded and then like the waste of it like The dripping of water lines and having new water having new water lines doesn't mean a hundred percent. They'll never leak but

Shane (08:58.807)
Yeah.

Shane (09:19.257)
true.

Chadwick (09:19.534)
they're gonna do a lot better than what they're doing now. And I think the outside of the health benefits, which to me is just the right thing to do, like shouldn't even argue with this. Like I get the actual application of this law and making it happen. It's hard, but hard things are important to do well. So it makes us America. So like buckle up, let's do this. But I think the investment, right? So if you're gonna replace all these lines.

Shane (09:34.114)
Yeah.

Chadwick (09:47.79)
A lot of times there's other things along the water line, so what else can you update? Like you can build a bigger interchange, you can produce, like imagine living in a house where the water pressure sucks all the time, you know? Like there's added value to this over time that everyone will benefit from, like as some of those economic projections are there. I think most of that comes from like the health cost of having lead in our water supply or just anywhere near ourselves.

Shane (09:51.702)
Mm-hmm.

Chadwick (10:15.902)
how expensive it is for health care to like take care of that so I Definitely think there's a big overlap of carbon-liac conversations and topics This is a big thing to chew and I'm chew on and I'm sure because it says Biden and infrastructure and spending tax dollars like Like it's not as bipartisan as it probably could be or maybe we some of us might think it should so I think

Shane (10:19.596)
Right.

Shane (10:41.975)
Yeah.

Chadwick (10:44.77)
Barring any other comments like we did find some local news stations that were covering this topic, too We wanted to bring that voice to our carbon light listeners Um, so you have to go find it on your own if you're interested in this. That's sound good Shane

Shane (10:57.737)
Yep. Sounds good.

Chadwick (11:01.014)
Let's share some screens.

Chadwick (11:07.812)
Okay.

Chadwick (11:30.439)
love. Here, let me show this water.

Shane (11:33.177)
Hehehehe...

Chadwick (12:14.722)
So I thought that was a good one to really cover the range of like how much do we do know and don't know and then like especially from that Missouri, Kansas point of view, like they think they might have the most. So if you're a resident, you're a carbon light listener, like this impacts you. Like in the show me state usually votes red, like so they would get a lot of added benefits. So like not that we're, I mean, we all have.

Shane (12:27.949)
PM.

Chadwick (12:42.806)
political viewpoints here, but I think let's move beyond those to like make this happen.

Shane (12:47.498)
Right.

Right, yeah. Just knowing...

Shane (12:58.753)
Kind of one thing that comes to mind is you had mentioned earlier is like, they don't plan on covering the cost for like private property, which doesn't surprise me at all, but it just started like, I just started like adding up how much money that would probably cost for citizens to have that done on their property. Cause I recently had some plumbing work done in my bathroom and I know how-

how costly that was. So just thinking about like actually having to dig up the whole yard and get all of that replaced. I don't even want to know.

Chadwick (13:36.702)
Yeah, but at the same time, like what is your health worth? Like I get like some people can't afford it and can't even get the loans. And with interest rates as high as they are, like I am passionately empathetic at the same time. I mean.

Shane (13:41.943)
Yeah.

Shane (13:51.862)
Yeah.

Chadwick (13:56.354)
How do I say this without being really crass? The city system manager that didn't know those pipes that you just bought sucked, and you find out after purchasing, that process is broken too. Like we need a clear map, and what was it like, blood pipes after 1980? Like, oh, okay, I guess you can stay.

Shane (14:08.458)
Mm-hmm.

Shane (14:20.669)
Yeah.

Yep. And it's just from that video, like some, some things that, you know, have to be thought of with this 10 year plan is there's a lot of obstacles that come into play that'll make it more difficult to replace all of these lead pipes. That's including the rising cost, supply, supply chain problems, labor shortages. So actually finding

Chadwick (14:48.524)
Yeah.

Shane (14:52.525)
companies to have the manpower to help out with this project. And like you said earlier, just the incomplete or the missing building records. Like how do we even, you know, in some situations, if there's no building records, it's like, well, is it worth taking the risk of digging all of this up and then come to find out that the pipes aren't as old as what was thought?

You know, just different things like that. But then you also risk if you leave them in because you don't know that makes a, that adds to the risk of contaminating the water that still goes through some of the updated piping if it's going through this old piping, you know, so.

Chadwick (15:24.962)
Mm-hmm.

Chadwick (15:41.323)
I hear you. Let's hear what Chicago has to say, because I think one of their local channels covered this too.

Chadwick (16:47.298)
So first off, clearly the woman that was first there is her home got updated and upgraded through a free program to test this out. And then you have one of the City of Chicago's municipality directors saying, that's 40,000 pipes every year. We physically can't, we don't have, there's enough people working in this industry to do that right.

Shane (16:58.765)
Hmm.

Shane (17:07.501)
Yeah.

Shane (17:13.121)
Yeah.

Chadwick (17:17.506)
We just mentioned in an episode or two ago, like, looks like a carbon-lay business plan. Like, get the lead out. Like, you could just literally call yourself, get the lead out. And then all of a sudden you're like, pro plumbing contractor of the year, because you've replaced X amount of. Yeah, what is that, the, this affects about nine million pipes across the country, is what they're estimating that. So, Chicago just said they have 400,000 pipes.

Shane (17:34.393)
That's sc-

Chadwick (17:47.114)
Missouri across the states at the 330,000 pipes. Like, I don't know, it's a lot.

Shane (17:52.877)
Thanks a lot.

And like they said, yeah, manufacturing, just manufacturing all that pipe. That's a lot. It'll take a while, but.

Chadwick (18:06.333)
Yeah. Okay. One more here from Baltimore. We'll get on the East coast here instead of get out of the Midwest.

Chadwick (18:16.202)
This poor guy, we froze him right here, so.

Chadwick (18:55.778)
So there you go. Clearly this is a known problem, so they've have some kind of treatment plan. The EPA is like, hey, treatment plans don't always work, you forget. And it's not as good as getting rid of them completely. What I thought was like why I played that clip is Baltimore's like kinda admitting like, they're not even sure if they have any lead pipes or no lead pipes other than they're treating them in case they do, like which I found kinda odd. It's also an older city.

So like unpack that, unpack Chicago, like, I mean, our.

Shane (19:25.837)
Yeah.

Shane (19:30.341)
And what is treating, I would imagine, whatever they're using to treat them, yeah, it's probably not that great for us to drink either. Yeah.

Chadwick (19:36.038)
It's treating them with water.

Cause that's shit you're drinking. Yeah.

Shane (19:44.865)
Who knows, but one thing you can do, I would recommend people, you can go to Google, type in your city and maybe search like free water test. There's a lot of, I've done a water test that was free through like Home Depot. So there's some free options as far as testing your water at home. So that would be the first step for everybody to try that out and see.

Chadwick (19:59.746)
Good call out.

Chadwick (20:14.59)
Yeah, I guess that's a good call out and I would just wrap it up. It's like it's not just about replacing the pipes. Like that is a hard thing to do. There's a lot of like ramp up to do that. It's also a step towards more sustainable and environmentally responsible future. By addressing this lead pipe issue, I'd say we're not only safeguarding public health, but taking a significant stride in building some resilient and stable, eco-friendly communities.

I guess the bigger question to our audience is how do you see initiatives like this contributing to a broader sustainable and environmental vision for where you live, for where I live, and for all of our Carpenter-Lane neighbors?

Shane (20:54.657)
Yep. So.

Chadwick (20:58.87)
Big topic.

Shane (21:00.537)
Definitely, important one. Hope everyone enjoyed this conversation.

Chadwick (21:05.974)
Definitely. With that, have an amazing rest of your week.

Shane (21:12.441)
videos.